topic Re: Problem with dust in A7 and A7ii in Alpha & NEX interchangeable lens cameras

Problem with dust in A7 and A7ii

Angi_W — Fri, 22 Nov 2019 13:02:29 GMT

I have been experiencing a problem with dust in both A7 and A7ii cameras. This dust can appear literally between shots, and when the lens hasnt even been changed - following professional cleaning at a camera shop. ( Even he said they are a nightmare to get totally free of dust- he can clean it and by the time the lens is on it has dust again).

I use mostly the same lens almost all the time so dont change lenses often, and now only change indoors in case of a breeze. I keep my lenses clean and blow with a rocket blower prior to changing lenses. I do everything we are supposed to do on changing lenses, pointing down, keep camera switched off, avoid a dusty atmosphere, change over quickly - I dont even breath when giving the sensor a bow or dry wipe!

The dust spots are definately on sensor not lens, and most of the time can not be seen by eye.

Im sure most people would never notice them, but I do because I work in macro all the time and shoot mostly at F18 with a clean background. Thing is that I enter a lot of competitions and I like to get everything right in camera - one of the competitions is only straight out of camera and they do not allow removal of dustspots, so I need to get my sensors spotless.

I have noticed the blowing it with the giotto rocket blower makes it worse every single time ( yet the same blower works on my partners 3 cameras ( Nikon and one is mirrorless). A dry swab does help but I cant even get less than 20 dust spots. Note they move around all the time - so not stubborn dust stuck to the sensor.

I know Im not the only person experiencing this, I have a few friends with the same issue - but they dont shoot macro with clean backgrounds so its not as noticeable for them. I know I can shoot at a wider aperture say F8 and they are a lot less visible - but I need to shoot at F18 for my speciality.

I love my Sony mirrorless, but if I cant resolve this soon Im going to have to change and sell all my equipment.

Re: Problem with dust in A7 and A7ii

Pascale_F — Sat, 23 Nov 2019 16:17:44 GMT

Hi Angi_W,

Welcome to the community.

I'm just going to try to find some answers for you. In the meantime, maybe someone else in the community might have some ideas.

Thanks,

Pascale

Re: Problem with dust in A7 and A7ii

Angi_W — Mon, 25 Nov 2019 18:00:08 GMT

Hi there

Did you find any solution?

Today I spent a good two hours trying to get my sensor clean, tried a Visible dust arctic butterfly - it barely helped at all which was disappointing. There is so much dust on my sensor today that I have been unable to take a photo - which is really frustrating me. Wet or dry swabs just sweeping dust to one side, screen shot below after 2 hours - how am I supposed to do professional level photography with a sensor like this? Considering selling all my Sony gear as its petty unusuable like this for doing macro work at F18. Thing is I know Im not the only one, I have numerous friend using this range who also struggle, but they rarely shoot macro or F18 with clean backgrounds so its not so much of a problem for them

Re: Problem with dust in A7 and A7ii

The_Black_Rose — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 17:24:33 GMT

Hi Angi_W,

Did you do the same steps mentioned here: https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/articles/00027109 ?

I believe your camera needs to be checked by Sony service centre if the steps in the link didn't' work.

Let me know if it is still the same so that I can pass it to Sony.

Cheers,
The_Black_Rose

Re: Problem with dust in A7 and A7ii

Angi_W — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 18:59:17 GMT

Hi there

Yes that was one of the first things I read.

I had the same issue with my A7 as well though.

Re: Problem with dust in A7 and A7ii

IamNic — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 00:24:36 GMT

Hello @Angi_W,

how in the world did you get so much dust IN the camera? Also at this point it could be that you permanently damaged the sensor as oppose to just move the dust around, why did you try to clean it yourself if it was that dirty?

- Nic

Re: Problem with dust in A7 and A7ii

Angi_W — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 08:33:29 GMT

I have no idea how or why the dust spots show so easily on the sensor. It is a second hand camera though and on very close inspection with magnifier yesterday I could see tiny bits of dust not on the sensor but on the inside cavity surrounding it - which were carefully and gently removed with an appropriate brush. I suspect it was this way from the previous own as I had to send it for a professional clean after purchase.

I simply could not afford to get it professionally cleaned pretty much every week or two, so proceeded to learn as much as possible re sensor cleaning and took advice from professionals who have done this for decades. I have been incredibly careful and I am confident that there is no permanent damage - none is visible. Although there is one light spot that does not move.

I am also convinced that most people simply do not notice the lighter micro spots - they are not visible through a loupe. They are only visible on viewing the dustspot option and clicking on the spot removal tool in RAW then clicking the visual spots option. Or by zooming in. As Ive explained - I worked almost exclusively at present in close up and macro - no need to change my lens, F18 , clean back drops and good lighting which means its very easy to spot the dust. Also i had the same issue with my A7 which was bought new, it was not so bad in the 1st year but 2nd year it got worse and I was extremely careful - I only got this professionally cleaned - but the problem persisted. I have several friends with this range of cameras and they are all finding this same issue - but it is less problematic for them as not many shoot at F18, and the spots become less visible at F11 and wider open. I can demonstrate this in successive shots. Also their subject matters rarely have clean backgrounds.

Re: Problem with dust in A7 and A7ii

Angi_W — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 08:35:17 GMT

Another reason I could not get it cleaned professionally often is that most of the time I am unable to leave home due to illness - the trip there and back can make me very ill for days.

Re: Problem with dust in A7 and A7ii

IamNic — Fri, 29 Nov 2019 14:28:27 GMT

Hello @Angi_W,

sorry to hear, that you can't leave your home 😞

@Angi_W schrieb:

I could see tiny bits of dust not on the sensor but on the inside cavity surrounding it

Maybe you are looking at the wrong spot of the camera here - have you checked that the lens is clean (back and front)?

I think also @darkframe and @r_a_n_i could give some input towards the cleaning and maintenance of your camera.

- Nic

Re: Problem with dust in A7 and A7ii

Angi_W — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 09:55:49 GMT

Thanks, I have checked the lens and changed lenses - which made no difference.

Re: Problem with dust in A7 and A7ii

darkframe — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 20:54:00 GMT

Hi @Angi_W,

first off I'd like to ask you whether the image which you've presented is a dark frame (sic!)? That's a term rather common in astro photography. It's used to determine which spots are stars and which ones may be hot pixels or other sensor errors.

What bothers me is that obviously two different cameras are affected. However, in order to get closer to the problem I'd suggest that you produce a dark frame by yourself. Please, do stick to one camera body and one lens to begin with. Changing to and fro will not lead us anywhere.

So, for the dark frame take your camera into a room with absolutely (!) no light. Put the lens cap on, switch off the screen and, for our purpose, take a shot of e.g. 30 or 60 seconds. In order to be a 100% sure cover the view finder right after you've started taking the shot, just to be sure that there's absolutely no light around. The resulting black image is the so-called dark frame.

In case the sensor does not have any hot pixels or other problems the image should show black only without any spots (check that on your PC) or a few spots only. In Germany there's no common law about the number of "acceptable" hot pixels for camera sensors (actually a court said "none" in a judgement regarding a Canon camera). That may be different in the UK of course. In case you do see something similar to your image above I'd nevertheless say that something's wrong with the sensor.

However, if your dark frame is black completely you'll know that at least the sensor is okay. Actually, when looking at your picture I'm not too sure whether those white dots were caused by dust. They do seem to be too equal in size and somehow too sharp for dust particles. Here's an example of a picture taken with a dust particle on the sensor (cut from the image, original size):

Obviously that dust particle produced a blurred and darkened area. And yes, I'm sure that it was a particle on the sensor because I was able to remove it by simply using a dust blower, hence the following pictures were fine.

So please do me a favour and do that dark frame test at first. If that runs okay we'll see what could be a different reason.

Cheers

darkframe

Re: Problem with dust in A7 and A7ii

Angi_W — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 19:21:59 GMT

Darkframe - thank you - this is my darkframe - its not looking good. Thing is that I only have about 10 dust spots at present - none of these show up. All dust spots move and change over time.

Re: Problem with dust in A7 and A7ii

IamNic — Thu, 05 Dec 2019 19:43:40 GMT

Hello @Angi_W,

on first glance that looks to me like damaged sensor pixels - what irritates me though is the option "visualize spots" (in the lower right) is activated. Which may put a contour around the spots and show which area will be "inpainted".

I think the software you took screenshots of changes what the darkframe really would show. Can you upload the JPEG file only? Without taking a screenshot of the software you want to use for spot removal?

- Nic

Re: Problem with dust in A7 and A7ii

Angi_W — Thu, 05 Dec 2019 21:33:15 GMT

That was in Adobe camera raw with visualise spots option and exposure wacked up 5 stops- Ive just taken another now and without the visualise spots option its just black all over.

Re: Problem with dust in A7 and A7ii

IamNic — Thu, 05 Dec 2019 23:58:21 GMT

Hello @Angi_W,

then your sensor is not broken after all.

Now how visible are spots when you taken an image of landscape/the sky?

- Nic

Re: Problem with dust in A7 and A7ii

The_Black_Rose — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 14:10:54 GMT

Hi Angi_W,

If the effect of the dust is visible in all of the photos taken even when you view them on the camera. I'd say get it inspected.

The service centre's number is +44(0) 1656867347.

Cheers,
The_Black_Rose

Re: Problem with dust in A7 and A7ii

IamNic — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:49:26 GMT

Hello @The_Black_Rose,

kindly read the thread - the white spots are an overlay created by the software @Angi_W wanted to use for dust/spot removal. The real impact is probably much smaller if visible at all.

- Nic

Re: Problem with dust in A7 and A7ii

darkframe — Thu, 12 Dec 2019 19:44:35 GMT

Hi @Angi_W,

@Angi_W schrieb:

Darkframe - thank you - this is my darkframe - its not looking good. Thing is that I only have about 10 dust spots at present - none of these show up. All dust spots move and change over time.

well, I had a talk to somebody else a few minutes ago and he came up with a reasonable explanation for your bad result with the darkframe.

He said that with those modern cameras you should use a lower exposure time for the production of a darkframe. Reason is that the longer the exposure time is the warmer the sensor gets which might lead to so-called "hot pixels". Those would lead to an image like you've shown here. So the white dots may simply be hot pixels but no broken pixels.

Additionally you should switch on Long Exposure Noise Reduction (see here) as this would take care of the hot pixels. Well, maybe worth a try.

Cheers

darkframe