topic A77/A65 flash bug in Alpha & NEX interchangeable lens cameras

A77/A65 flash bug

mikeyp2000 — Thu, 15 Dec 2011 06:38:01 GMT

After using the flash a few times, it inevitably stops working. I understand that the flash can only fire a certain number of times before needing a rest.

I have noticed that after the a77 reaches this point, it can only then fire the flash once every 10 seconds, even if the little 'flash charging' icon light has switched from blinking (ie flash charging) to steady (ie flash ready). Even if it indicates Flash Ready, it will not fire until about 10 seconds have elapsed since the last flash. Even waiting 3 *minutes* after the flash runs out of energy still only allows further flash use at a rate of one flash every 10 seconds. At this point, the flash is not even warm.

The manual states that the recycle time for the built in flash is 'approx 3 seconds'. In real life, even firing manual flash at 1/8 runs out of energy after 15-20 shots. In wireless flash mode, the pop up flash stalls after 15 shots exactly, every time. I reckon WL pulses are roughly equivalent to 1/8 power fill flash shots, after looking at the brightness the WL pulse contributes to an image and adding a bit more for the pre-flash control sequence.

When the flash has reached the 'stalled' state, the 'flash ready' indicator is steady, indicating ready. When you press the shutter button, the indicator starts to blink again. This lasts 10 seconds then finally you take a shot.

Now, here's why I think this is a bug.

Interestingly, if the camera reaches it's power saving time and goes to sleep, if you wake it up again after just a few seconds (eg with a half shutter button press), the flash is suddenly no longer hung and works perfectly again. I have tried this with 10s, 1m and 5m powersave modes. In every case, the flash can be used repeatedly until hung then un-hung by a brief (5seconds) of powersave mode. Until powersave has been entered, the flash is stalled, after powersave has been dismissed and the camera reawoken, the flash is normal again and can fire off another 15 shots.

Example: Shoot at 1/8 power in Drive mode Lo (3 fps). You can get about 15 or so shots at 3pfs before the flash hangs. After this, you can only shoot once every 10 seconds. Even if you leave 3 minutes before trying any shooting at all again, you can still only get one flash shot every 10 seconds. However, if the camera enters powersave mode for about 5 seconds, when you reawaken the camera, it can manage another 15 shots at 3fps before stalling again.

It seems that if a power save after 5 minutes is as effective as a powersave after just 10s, surely something odd is happening deep inside the flash control system

Can anyone else try this and see how they get on?

A77/A65 flash bug

Mick2011 — Thu, 15 Dec 2011 06:32:36 GMT

Yes, I've heard reports of this behaviour, don't think it's unique to your camera at all. It's an issue for people using the built-in flash as a controller for wireless flash operation, surprised because the flash discharge is restricted to mimimum output, yet it still cuts out.

I agree it sounds like buggy behaviour, but I'm more swayed by arguments that suggest a deliberate restriction on flash discharge rates to prevent posisble overheating. The reasoning being that the flash has no in-built overheating sensor which might disable the unit in that eventuality. Hence you have a 'numbers-of-flashes' limitation, regardless of output, on the basis that most users will not be using it at 1/8 output.

I'm guessing at this, as I say, so I've asked for clarification from some Sony techs. I'll post up the reponse as/when I get one.

Cheers

Mick

A77/A65 flash bug

mikeyp2000 — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 00:43:09 GMT

Thanks for taking this up. Can I just add that when the flash stalls, it is not hot at all, not even warm. It's not just wireless triggering affected but any flash. As an overheat protection, it's not too effective as after just a few seconds in sleep mode, it is cured.

Finally, my a55 and a700 could flash away till the cows come home (or the battery ran out). It seems to be an a65/77 peculiarity....

Cheers

A77/A65 flash bug

mikeyp2000 — Thu, 05 Jan 2012 20:50:43 GMT

Hi,

Did you get any feedback from the engineers about this one?

Cheers

A77/A65 flash bug

Mick2011 — Sat, 07 Jan 2012 08:23:10 GMT

Not as yet, no. It's early days really, given the holiday season just ending and the concomitant backlog of enquiries that flood their way following the busiest trading month of the year...

The idea that this is a deliberate restriction on flash discharge due to the lack of in-built overheating sensor was vaguely agreed upon by a colleague who seemed to recall this being brought up while addressing another issue.

Basically Sony do tend to err on the side of caution, and when there's a possibility of damaging a heat-sensor-less flash on a camera capable of 12 frames per second, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that a flash count limit was hard-coded into the firmware.

As I say, if I hear anything either way I'll let you know here.

Cheers

Mick

A77/A65 flash bug

mikeyp2000 — Sat, 28 Jan 2012 19:16:43 GMT

Just to add to the mixture... A few a35 cameras seem to have the same issue (reported in the Flickr Sony Camera Club message boards).

Maybe this issue is common to all the latest generation of SLTs? (a35/65/77)

A77/A65 flash bug

andywilson666 — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 12:02:27 GMT

I normally use radio triggers, but due to a battery malfunction (I forgot to pack spares for the receivers) I had to use the popup flash to trigger 2 F42s the other day, and I came across this problem.

This is a really, really serious issue for me - has anyone found a workaround, or are there any plans for a fix?